SEPARATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE – “SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR”???
LostMessiah April 13, 2015
Joel Petlin and East Ramapo –
Keeping the ultra-Orthodox children Insulated and under-educated, and Drawing Money from the Secular and non-Jewish school children.
In Reply: East Ramapo can learn from Kiryas Joel split
Lohud, April 13, 2016
http://www.lohud.com/story/opinion/contributors/2016/04/12/east-ramapo-kiryas-joel-split/82617574/
“While dissolving East Ramapo, is the most intriguing, it presupposes that other neighboring School Districts will actually want the mostly minority students who make up the majority of the public school population. Moreover, it also presupposes that Ramapo Central, Clarkstown and others will welcome the thousands of new Orthodox and Hasidic private school students and taxpaying voters into their districts, at the same time that these families are already moving into those districts at a rapid pace.”
UNBELIEVABLY RACIST — and playing the same “threat” card that KJ is doing with annexation.
“The long-term solution to bring educational equity and community harmony to East Ramapo is precisely the KJ plan. But unlike the KJ legislation that was opposed for over a decade, the new School District would be created for the public school community — in an ethnically, linguistically and religiously diverse section of the District such as Spring Valley. It would allow for a newly elected Board of Education who could work hand in hand with the East Ramapo School Board on tuition and transportation agreements to ensure fair funding and opportunity for all students.
It is frankly the only solution that truly protects the educational rights of all students, as well as the voting rights of all taxpayers. We owe it to the kids to break the deadlock and bring peace to East Ramapo.”
LOSTMESSIAH 
Amos-On behalf of Shayna, I can’t comprehend what you are saying. What is a Mir yeshiva grad? If I don’t observe the Sabbath does that make me a bad person, I think not. Your two Sabbath observers Reichberg and Rechnitz observe the Sabbath. I guess that makes them good. I think you are brainwashed about your idea of a typical Harvard grad. You also seem to be prejudiced against single people, more brainwashing.
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Amos-Public school children attend school from 9-3 and study secular studies, no religious classes. 300% is quite an exaggeration. If you bothered to read Shulem Deen’s book you would know his wife was pregnant and the two of them didn’t know how the baby would make it’s entrance into the world. A little education might help. One student from Ramapo HS was accepted into Harvard. How many Harvard grads will come out of New Square? We all know a few years ago there were over 70 East Ramapo students sent to KJ daily. It cost the district over $70,000 per kid plus bussing out of the County. The school district wasn’t reimbursed by the State because they weren’t following the special ed rules. The private school kids get a whole lot more than just bussing from the District. There are many people in the County that pay taxes and never put a child through the local school systems. Somehow you never hear them complain. Your dishonesty reflects your prejudices .
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Hi yehidis, I’m not familiar with the $70K story. Despite being an outsider, I was given the ultra orthodox wedding classes, and then had ultra-orthodox marriage classes. The level of detail regarding intimate matters was extraordinary and shocking. I am not sure what all groups do by way of education – I have been associating with modern and litvish groups, but even the “backwards” ones certainly seem to know how to build families. I do not view Harvard grads as a measure of anything. How many Mir yeshiva grads do you get out of your model group? How many put on tefillin or keep the Sabbath? How many Harvard grads have families vs. bouncing around with huge debts working long hours, single, worrying only about themselves and their organic sushi and their shiny shoes and fancy vocabularies and supple skin and most recent trip to Hong Kong? If Shayna from NZ were around here she’d slam me right about now for being incomprehensible. Probably with reason!
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@Amos, You didn’t respond to our questions. You are not wrong, in some regards, about the “materialism” that comes from society; but that is a societal thing and not necessarily because we have lost our religion. It is a loss of perspective, in our view. Look at the Rabbi in Israel who said that people should not pay more than $600.00 for a Shtreimel. That’s admirable. That should have been said a long time ago. Shtreimels on ebay – used – are upwards of $700.00 to $1500.00. Is that any less materialistic. A wig for a woman to keep to tsnius can cost $1500.00-$2000.00. Not many secular women spend that much on their hair!!!! The Harvard grad focuses on Leboutin and Armani while the Belz focus on mink and sable but that is the same materialism, simply with a different basis – a different label. We believe that the way is lost not only for the ultra-Orthodox but for everyone. However, we have chosen this topic because we believe that it breeds anti-Semitism, like a self-fulfilling prophesy. How can one not be incensed to hear that a large majority in Kiryas Joel is on welfare and food stamps but a walk around the community on Shabbat reveals $80,000.00 cars parked along the streets. Is that any less materialistic? Why does Rabbi Twersky need a chauffer driven chariot and two homes each equipped with its own private Mikveh while the people of New Square are all but starving? That is no less materialistic. We believe (at least some of us) that if you are going to dress to prove that you are better than the rest (which is how the streimel came to be in the first place – as a spiteful gesture to prove a point) than you should be held to that higher standard – like the old “Hebrew National” advertisement. Once you reduce yourself to allowing crimes to be committed and your children to not speak English than there is little you can do to make yourself worthy of the cause to which you aspire.
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It is rich to call these kids who study 300% more than any other kids “under-educated”. You mean they don’t study what you like, like sex ed, etc. Also, you must “feel the bern” because you think all our money belongs to the government and so getting some back in the form of free bussing – getting only a fraction back, while funding the local public school – is “taking away” from the general population. It is merely keeping a fraction of the taxes paid.
So, you are editorializing to impose your subjective views on the news you are reporting, and reflecting your own prejudices.
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Amos, if a child graduates from High School in the United States and cannot put together 2 sentences in proper English then in terms of the country in which he lives, whether he is Hispanic, or Jewish, or Chinese, or Korean or Nordic, whatever, he is functionally illiterate. That is undereducated. If a community wants to change the standards of education within the regime in which it lives, then let that community change the standards through legal channels. If a community does not want to avail itself of the resources provided for it by the taxes and other costs, then let the community fund private education, private hospitals, private police services, etc. We do not avail ourselves of Medicaid, Title I and other subsidies yet we pay into them. Perhaps those who do not use services simply should not pay into them on all sides. Is that what you are suggesting? No need for food stamps no pay into the food stamp system? There are states, like Ohio, Kansas, Kentucky and Midwestern states that have little or no property taxes. Why not start populating those states with yeshivas and other institutions? To choose a place to live with the highest property taxes in the country and then to complain because you have made a CHOICE not to avail yourselves of the services offered within that place is unacceptable. Moreover, it is arguable that the Mormons hold to your position. They are self-sustaining because they have chosen to live in places with less imposing property taxes and school taxes. Why is it that the ultra-Orthodox community can’t do the same? Yes. We editorialize and then accept comments doing the same. You want separate but equal. That was ruled out a long time ago.
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It also has not been so successful in KJ/Monroe-Woodbury, where members of the KJ community are levying threats of a “hostile takeover”.
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So Joel Petlin’s solution is “separate but equal”? This isn’t 1960 Mississippi.
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