Caulfield Synagogue Anti-Homosexuality Protest – Tolerance or Intolerance?

https://aleph.org.au/2017/06/18/harry-elkus-and-the-caulfield-synagogue-anti-homosexuality-protest/

“Harry Elkus” and the Caulfield Synagogue anti-homosexuality protest

 

Gay orthodox rabbi Steven Greenberg was billed as guest speaker at the Caulfield Hebrew Congregation on Friday June 16 2017:

Rabbi Steven Greenberg guest speaker at CHC

It came to our attention last week that a document “HERESY-CHC” was being distributed around the Melbourne Jewish community calling for concerned members of the Jewish community to protest this event:

Heresy pamphlet

The document contains the name “Harry Elkus” in the Author field of the document Properties:

Heresy document properties

It also came to our attention that some of the information in the flyer was apparently misleading:

 

FYI
(i just received this from a protest organiser)
==========================
Please send this out ASAP
To the Melbourne Jewish community,
Yesterday an email was disseminated to the community calling for a public protest outside Caulfield Shule during its upcoming event this Friday night.
Following consultation with leading communal Rabbonim we hereby inform the community that the planned protest has been cancelled. We discourage anyone from participating in any public protests as it will only serve to escalate the controversy surrounding the issue.
We also wish to clarify one aspect of the email distributed yesterday. Some in the community understood from the email that the (now cancelled) protest had the widespread support of the Rabbinate including, but not limited to, the Rabbinical Council of Victoria (RCV) and the Rabbinical Council of Australia and New Zealand (RCANZ). We wish to clarify that at no point were the RCV or the RCANZ consulted about the said protest. We apologise sincerely to both Rabbinic bodies for any implication otherwise.
We maintain our view that the event at Caulfield Shule should not be under the auspices of Orthodoxy but we recognize that public protests are counter-productive.
May Hashem help us in seeing Torah true Judaism upheld in our community.

 

It is deeply disappointing and disturbing that some members of the Jewish community wish to use their religion to demonise and further marginalise homosexual people.  There is no room for discrimination or intolerance in the Jewish community.

 

Please see the original article and site: https://aleph.org.au/2017/06/18/harry-elkus-and-the-caulfield-synagogue-anti-homosexuality-protest/

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38 thoughts on “Caulfield Synagogue Anti-Homosexuality Protest – Tolerance or Intolerance?

  1. Anonymous – a self-declared Torah representative says:

    “fuck another guy in the ass”
    “screw other guys”
    “you dont want to feel guilty when taking a cock”
    “believe that your penis created the world”
    “you don’t want to feel guilty when fucking your same sex partner”
    “try xanax”

    AND

    “thank god i study gemara every day, i suggest you try it too, and remember its very important to verbalize the text, not just read it, has better effect that way, might calm your raging soul alittle”

    Hmmm. Yes, I can see the beautiful “benefits” of refinement that come from verbalizing Gemarah daily. No doubt it is so much more effective while crunching down on a handful of Xanax.

      • MMS,

        “Would love to meet you one day and compare notes.”

        I check here, and at http://dusiznies.blogspot.com daily. And I may write at my own blog again soon.
        FrumWatch is a daily read for me also.
        The worst of my Jewish experience has been with Chabad and I really haven’t shared much of it. Lately I’ve been interested in the topic of sanctified lying for the sake of kiruv. Kosher lying, another invention of hypocrite ultra-Orthodox on a quest for other people’s money and minds.

    • @Chafraud-Depravitch, so you are allowed to be gay but i shouldn’t use any language that offends you, i guess you dont judge other as you would yourself, hmmm… in any case you are a very sick person and i wont argue with you any further, again let me reiterate its no shame to see a shrink, nobody has to know, you can tell him/her about the time you were kicked out of shul because you were caught showing porn to the rabbis young son, and the time when your wife caught a hookers bikini in your car, nobody will know beside the shrink, im telling you, these people are good, and the medicines they prescribe dont have much side effects, unless when taken more than prescribed, i would appreciate to hear how the sessions went if you were to be ever so kind and fill me in

  2. If God hates Gays, why were they created? Why did God give them such a curse|?

    There really is no answer because there is………

    • @h, did god create Hitler? did he create cancer? is this your final argument? that because he created them its ok? are you that stupid?

  3. It is deeply disappointing and disturbing that you refuse to recognize the point of the intended protest—that Greenberg’s views are not representative of Orthodox Judaism and his views don’t qualify as Orthodox, never mind those of a rabbi. Instead, in typical fascist liberal style, you accuse the letter writer of intolerance and demonization.
    It is indeed an utter disgrace that he is being hosted in a supposedly Orthodox shul, and the silence of the rabbis is deafening.

    • What are you suggesting in your comments – that the LGBTQ community is not welcome in Judaism/Orthodoxy or that the community is welcome. Your comments are as ambiguous as the protest. We make no accusations at all. Perhaps you can do us all the good graces of explaining the point of your comment, the position that you are taking and the notion of tolerance versus intolerance. As we see it, the Orthodox community in the context of an anti-homosexuality protest is intolerant. As we see it, religious Judaism should be more tolerant and G-D knows there is no shortage of hypocrisy. So, which position, exactly, are you trying to espouse?

      • You definitely have a reading and comprehension problem. The protest would not have been against homosexuality (whatever that would mean anyway) but against the warped secular ideas of this guy that conflict with basic Jewish teachings on sexual sin being aired in a supposedly frum shul. Supposedly Orthodox people should actually take the Torah seriously as a guide for our lives and not throw its timeless teachings out in order to conform to the secular script. Elkus is completely right (and may he be blessed) that Greenberg speaks heresy and should therefore not be given a forum in a shul. Let him speak at Reform.
        As for being welcoming, there is, in fact, a middle ground–every Jew should be welcomed but at the same time one should not endorse or be seen to endorse sinful behaviors in any way, which is really the agenda of Greenberg and company. It is also obscene to identify a group as a community by the specific sins they commit, or forbidden desires they harbor, which is obviously intended to legitimize, normalize, and promote those self-destructive, sinful behaviors.

        • So, our problem is not one of comprehension or of reading but rather of a fundamental belief that perhaps the teachings to which you so “devoutly” espouse are either being misinterpreted or perhaps Orthodoxy needs to make way for alternative lifestyles. If you do not wish to follow this blog, then don’t. We don’t believe that one cannot be both a “devout” member of the Orthodox community and be a member of the LGBTQ community. We are all G-d’s creations.

          • My beliefs as an Orthodox Jew come fundamentally from Torah. If you seriously think I am interpreting some specific Torah source, please show me which. If you want me to abandon my Torah belief because I should conform with secular trends, it is you who are showing disrespect for me as a religious person. Either way, my attachment to my age-old beliefs is not hate but simply my being true to my duty as a believer to be true to my beliefs, so it is the opposite–painting my beliefs as hate is hateful.

          • @mr LM you are wrong, gd is totally against gayism, lesbianism not so much, god says so in the torah, so no, you cannot be a devout jew and a member of the gay community(notice i dont paint gays and lesbians in one brush). you secular people are so very confused.

            • Anonymous November 3, 2017 at 5:30 pm is a complete moron.
              A perfect example of the fundamentalism extremism found in the recent invention “ultra-Orthodoxy.”

              The Torah describes anal sex between two men, not the emotional state of being “gay” (same sex attraction). It’s the lack of reasoning among primitive, superstitious ultra-Orthodox that causes confusion between the two issues and leads to haredi freaks like Yishai Schlissel to commit murder of a 15 year-old (non-homosexual) girl at a Jerusalem pride parade.

              But when you’re a fundamentalist, extremist haredi freakshow, one can just overlook any Torah prohibition against MURDER.

              “gayism” LOL! Take an English class… sh!thead.

              • @Chafraud-Depravitch, so you are saying that coming out as gay doesn’t entail the decision to go ahead and fuck another guy in the ass? c’mon you are smarter than that.

                and regarding the use of the word gayism, its deabteable whether its officialy a word, but it definitely made its way into urban lingo.

                see:
                https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/gayism

                • Anonymous November 10, 2017 at 2:32 pm,

                  “you are saying that coming out as gay doesn’t entail the decision to go ahead and fuck another guy in the ass? c’mon you are smarter than that.”

                  I’ve met gays who say precisely that. Intercourse is not necessarily a part of their relationship. Of course, how they pleasure each other is really none of my business. And everyone will be much happier when religious fundamentalists, like yourself, realize it’s none of their business either.

                  Also, I recall something in the Torah about the requirement of two witnesses, warnings, and some other overlooked stuff. Are you and a friend the ‘butt police’ looking for evidence of an ‘aveira’ so you can issue citations?

                  The bottom line is (no pun intended), if you’re not witnessing what two consenting adults are doing in their privacy, good; it’s really none of your business. And if you are witnessing gay intercourse, you’re probably in the wrong place. It’s amazing how much common sense is lost to religion though is doesn’t have to be.

                  The event that was so offensive to the Jewish religious fundamentalists was to address a problem of emotional pain (and sometimes suicide) within a gay segment of that community. It wasn’t a gay orgy, nor a gay sex instruction class, nor even a parade. But instead of recognizing a serious problem and coming up with a solution more appealing to their fundamentalist view, they instead made the event the problem.

                  That highlights the intellectual dishonesty of religious fundamentalism as well. To the fundamentalist mind, the mitzvah of Pikuach Nefesh is negligible when compared to their primitive, theocratic agenda.
                  I bet you can’t wait to get to your first public stoning.

                  .

                  • @Chafraud-Depravitch, did i say its my business? no i didnt, but dont say that the torah isnt against it, when it specifically is against it. and did i justify the actions of schliesel? why do you put words in my mouth? of course he is a deranged murderer, not only do you need 2 witnesses but you shouldn’t kill anyone period, of course since you are losing the argument you’re trying to paint me as someone who approves of murder.

                • actually shaking my head at the proudly stated ignorance of this roach. Torah prohibits the Act not the inclination. Stand up so the internet can see what a POS you are

              • @Chafraud-Depravitch, if you like to screw other guys, go ahead its your life and your decision, but don’t misrepresent the torah just because you dont want to feel guilty when taking a cock, of course violence is wrong on either side, goes without saying

                • Anonymous November 10, 2017 at 2:46 pm,

                  It’s always especially amusing to read the filthy mouths of the “uber-pious.”

                  (just an fyi) I’ve been with the same woman for over 30 years, happily married, with children, all yeshiva educated.

                  “of course violence is wrong on either side, goes without saying”

                  What Schlissel did wasn’t merely “violence,” It was murder. a premeditated stabbing spree with the intention of ending the lives of multiple people (intended mass-murder… in the name of God and Torah no less).

                  And you’re a hypocrite. A religious liar of epic proportion. You clearly don’t care about the very preventable self-violence of suicide caused by little more than an individual’s own emotional conflict and confusion.

                  Perhaps you’d rather have a dead sibling than a gay sibling, or a dead child rather than a gay child. Or even more extreme, perhaps the suicide of gays (suicide also being a sin) is naches for you.
                  If so, your application of “Torah” is sick, toxic, and demented.

                  Thank you for the opportunity to engage with your ‘razor-sharp’ intellect. A product of extensive Gemara study, I’m sure.

                  • @Chafraud-Depravitch, i understand you have alot of rage issues, but let me reiterate, the torah does not approve of gays, you have free will to believe in whatever you want to believe in, be it jesus, paganism, you can believe that your penis if you want , but dont twist the torah to fir your agenda, if you can face that simple truth maybe you shouldn’t comment here, and btw there advanced treatments for people like you, try xanax.

                    thank god i study gemara every day, i suggest you try it too, and remember its very important to verbalize the text, not just read it, has better effect that way, might calm your raging soul alittle

                    • Anonymous
                      November 12, 2017 at 3:00 pm ,

                      “i understand you have alot of rage issues, but let me reiterate, the torah does not approve of gays, you have free will to believe in whatever you want to believe in, be it jesus, paganism, you can believe that your penis if you want , but dont twist the torah to fir your agenda, if you can face that simple truth maybe you shouldn’t comment here, and btw there advanced treatments for people like you, try xanax”

                      If I were ‘raging’ my posts would be filled with more vulgarities than yours.

                      It’s apparent that you can’t face the clear fact that the Torah describes a specific sex act, not an emotional feeling or sexual orientation. There’s no Torah twisting there. I read what the text says. It says one should not DO a certain thing, not one should not FEEL a certain way.

                      You claim you know it’s ‘not your business,’ but make it your business by assuming you know what’s going on in people’s bedrooms. I wonder why it concerns you and your ilk at all. Perhaps it’s a deflection of your piss-poor record of dealing with issues like child sexual abuse in your “frum” communities (much of which is of the homosexual variety against people who are unable to consent to it).

                      You fail to respond to the fact that your fellow fundamentalists have created more problems and offer no, ZERO, solution. I believe the reason for that is that you don’t care. That’s fine. But get the hell out of the way of those who do care, okay?

                      Additionally, I don’t buy into no-show messiahs (a product of Judaism mostly) whether they are the Jesus or Menachem Mendel Schneerson variety.

                      Also, thank you for your Xanax prescription. It offers me a perfect opportunity to point out that some haredi communities use narcotics to control people who have opposing viewpoints; or, even for thing as petty as possessing a smartphone. And of course, they even use drugs to attempt to control the homosexuals within their own ranks (because they have no other way of dealing with it unlike the organizers of the event above) :
                      https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/rabbi-s-little-helper-1.422985

                      Of course, maybe the uber-frum cults (uh, communities) should back off the substance usage a bit.

                      http://forward.com/news/358204/insiders-warn-of-an-epidemic-of-suicide-and-overdose-on-the-ultra-orthodox/

                      And all because of the uber-Orthodox’s failure to communicate and nurture others. Failure to preserve life. Failure to love their fellow as themselves. And of course, their ultimate failure, to serve God.

                      But leave it to self-righteous, primitive, fundamentalists like you… if you meet an opinion that conflicts with your own, throw some drugs (or stones) at it.

                    • Chafraud-Depravitch November 12, 2017 at 5:39 pm: Spot on with all your points, I have nothing to add. Would love to meet you one day and compare notes.

                    • The Genmorah is supposed to challenge your intellect. In your case it has merely stunted you. You are unable to question, unable to learn and unable to discover. #notacult

    • Amusingly, if you come from one of those ‘re-populate the jewish world’ kind of cults with multiple children, the chances are at least one of your siblings or 1st cousins is Gay.

      • @ mr smart ass, you can be for gays, but don’t say that the torah is for it, don’t misrepresent things others said because you don’t want to feel guilty when fucking your same sex partner, nobody forces you to believe in the torah, believe its bullshit if you want to, its your life and your decision, but don’t try to pretend the torah doesn’t have a problem with it

        • You’re really projecting aren’t you. It’s always the ones making the most noise that end up being caught with the gay porn.
          (BTW-Happily married for 28 years – but open-minded and educated – after extricating myself from your cults control)
          I suspect from the tone of your posts that you’re maybe 15…but then in your community, you’re probably 40+ with the emotional maturity of a pomegranate.
          Go worship your Rebbe…you pathetic little infant.

          • @h i cant respond to somebody who doesn’t say anything, all you did was throw insults and verbal stabbings in a fit of rage, i think my best advice in instances like these is to see a professional with a masters degree in psychology from a prodigious college, maybe he can help you with your issues, or try studying torah, its words are powerful and maybe can bring happiness to your broken heart

            • @h, BTW when you study torah make sure to verbalize the words, not just read the text, verbalizing the words are an important part of torah study and necessary if you want to achieve the desired results

              • Study Torah??? Why??? So I can be an ill-educated moron like you who broadcasts his ignorance proudly for the world to see??
                Been there, done that…grew up.

            • Broken Heart? that’s hilarious. I celebrate having broken away from the Chassidishe cult I was raised in.
              You OTOH cannot imagine anyone having a successful and satisfying life outside of your ‘rebbe-written’ directives.
              I pity you.
              #notacult

  4. Spelling in the protest article:
    “devine
    adjective, noun, verb
    1. a frequent misspelling of divine”

    Content in the article: reflects a frequent misunderstanding of how to deal with important communal matters…

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