Satmar Hasidim Drown??… Commenters’ Posts

no lifeguard florida.1

Yitzchak Rosenberg and a Beach in Miami – A Tale of Two Cities, the Satmar, former Mob connections, Diamonds and Drowning – Part II

Were the Men Dressed or Were they Naked? Were they Swimming or…. Sometimes What is Said by the Commenters is Far more Telling than What is Reported by the Press

May 20, 2016

Aside from a segment of the ultra-Orthodox/Orthodox Jewish community, many of whom believe as they are instructed, reasonable minds have questions about what happened on the beach in Miami. The entire story simply does not add up. The dark and disreputable history of Yitzchak Rosenberg (zl) and the prone-to-unfortunate-events diamond dealing Chaim Parnes (zl) make the incident on that secluded and unguarded beach that day all the more dubious.    

We point to the obvious: the “victims had been swimming in an unguarded section of the beach that was marked as off-limits to bathers, adding that strong currents had been observed in the ocean.” There are conflicting events regarding “A fifth individual with the group [who] was also taken to the hospital later with symptoms possibly related to the stress of the incident….” What does “possibly related” mean?

Newspaper reports cited in our article yesterday suggest that there was a third swimmer who was in the hospital following the rescue. Does this mean that a fourth person went to the hospital later that day?

There has been continued speculation regarding whether or not the men were pulled out of the water naked or scantily clad. There have been whispers but no official press reports, not even a hint of a report, and the silence on this is deafening. One commenter  to an article posted in Vos Iz Neias on May 17, 2016 may have unwittingly answered that question.

Please note, while the commenters’ names are publicly available on the Voz Iz Neias site [and likely will be removed following publication of this article], out of respect for their anonymity, we removed commenters’ names where they did not call themselves “anonymous.” We fully understand the wrath of the community in which many commenters likely live (we assume most to this article are frum) and we are all too aware of those who want to silence any voice.

 

———– Says:

Reply to #5  Hide Quote
mr613 Says:

זאָל ניט אידן דורך די ברעג

Baruch Dayan HaEmet. There is always an opportunity to judge favorably and always a good opportunity to be quiet and not say a beep. This beach was deserted except for the Yidden. It’s obvious that was being used as a mikveh and that there was no pritzut or this would have not happened. Next time you want to judge bite your tongue. HaSh-m is the true judge and only he knows why this tzadikim were taken.

We had always assumed that these men were naked when they were pulled out of the water. The comment above left little uncertainty as to whether or not the men were clothed, the “mikveh”. The mikveh is a ritual bath intended to cleanse the body and soul. It is required not only that the person be naked, but clean, well groomed and that no hairs or other particles get in the way of the water touching the skin.

We make no conclusions regarding the laws and the issue of “pritzut” or prohibition. What we are pointing to here is simply that the commenter (#5) must have known the men were naked or it would not have been so “obvious” that they were taking a ritual bath. Their nudity is something we have believed, but has been kept from the public. Commenter #5 may have confirmed our suspicions.

If he or she is right, then perhaps their nudity would not seem so suspicious, perhaps. The anonymous person (#19) who responds changes all that.

Anonymous Says:

 #37 – Reply to #19  Hide Quote
———- Says:

Baruch Dayan HaEmet. There is always an opportunity to judge favorably and always a good opportunity to be quiet and not say a beep. This beach was deserted except for the Yidden. It’s obvious that was being used as a mikveh and that there was no pritzut or this would have not happened. Next time you want to judge bite your tongue. HaSh-m is the true judge and only he knows why this tzadikim were taken.

They went swimming. There are a number of men’s mikvahs in Miami. Including one at Kereister Shtiebel

Anonymous (#19), in his reply to the previous poster’s comments, raises questions about the “obvious” conclusion of the mikveh because of the proximity to other mikehs. There are many nearby mikvehs. He does not dispute whether or not they were clothed, which would have contradicted a conclusion of a ritual bath. His knowledge of the nearby mikvehs (a/k/a mikvahs) leads one to the conclusion that he is also a member of the frum community. It would seem #19 knows more than what is being reported, but may or may not be phased by it.

Anonymous Says:

# 47 – Reply to #19  Hide Quote
———- Says:

Baruch Dayan HaEmet. There is always an opportunity to judge favorably and always a good opportunity to be quiet and not say a beep. This beach was deserted except for the Yidden. It’s obvious that was being used as a mikveh and that there was no pritzut or this would have not happened. Next time you want to judge bite your tongue. HaSh-m is the true judge and only he knows why this tzadikim were taken.

Why was it “used as a ‘mikveh?’ A deserted beach & ocean is good for swimming…good exercise and enjoy the beauty of HaShem. Todah

We are assuming that this anonymous poster is a different person than the previous one (though he could be the same). We also believe him or her to be a member of the frum community from the use of “HaShem” which translates directly to “The Name” but is the term used generally by the frum community as a reference to G-d.

Again we turn back to the question of whether or not these men were clothed and actually what they were doing on a deserted beach at the ocean without a lifeguard on duty and in perilous conditions, as marked on the beach. The fact that this beach was deserted and that there was no lifeguard on duty and the conditions of the water made this beach unsuitable for swimming, which is noted in Voz Iz Neias article itself:

“Haulover is known to have strong currents,” said Benitez.  “We do have a lot of near drownings in the Haulover inlet area, which is about a quarter of a mile away.”

The fact that the area was deserted today is what likely appealed to the group in the first place, but Benitez warned that swimming without supervision in the area is highly discouraged.

“We emphasize the importance of swimming only at guarded areas of the beach where lifeguards are present,” said Benitez.

__________  (#62) Says:

This is very strange. I always admired how the chasidim are able to achieve kevurah on the same day as you misa. Yet here it is taking an unusually long time to get the bodies released. There was no foul play. What is going on?

Kevurah means burial. Under strict Jewish law, and generally followed by all Jews, a body is supposed to be buried within 24 to 48 hours following death.

We actually find it troubling that there appears to have been no autopsy done, or at least the reports have been silent on this subject. Burial sans autopsy is not uncommon within the Jewish community, particularly among the ultra-Orthodox community for religious reasons beyond the timing of the burial. We thought the body was released far too quickly. To the contrary, however, #62 above seems to think it strange that the body was not released more quickly.

We have to wonder whether perhaps the medical examiner did conduct an autopsy (albeit quickly). Were that to have occurred, then we are plausably not the only ones who suspect that this was not a case of some beach-goers carried away in riptides. If an autopsy did not occur then we are left no less suspicious about whether or not drowning was actually the “cause of death” though we are certain the official death certificate is likely going to read that way.

LM Assistance Requested: The photographs are from the Voz Iz Neias article. If anyone can identify the people in the photographs (and those in the article), we would be curious to know who they are.

The Two Largely Unnamed Men – the two who were either not swimming or were not carried away by riptides but are finally named…

Miami, FL – Official: Area Where 2 New York Haredi Residents Drowned Is Unguarded Beach Known For Strong Currents

http://www.vosizneias.com/238920/2016/05/17/miami-fl-2-new-york-residents-dead-in-miami-drowning/

Miami, FL – A well known real estate developer and renowned member of the Satmar community was one of two who died this morning in the Atlantic Ocean in North Miami Beach.

Yitzchak Rosenberg, owner of Certified Lumber in Williamsburg and owner and developer of several properties in Williamsburg, was pronounced dead on the scene after a riptide unexpectedly swept the group out into the ocean.

The second man was identified as Chaim Parnes, a diamond dealer who was robbed of $35,000 worth of merchandise, pistol whipped and had his tires slashed on a Thanksgiving 2015 visit to North Miami, according to Miami’s Local 10 News.  At the time, Parnes said he was grateful to have survived the encounter.

“If (you) take away life, (it) doesn’t come back,” Parnes said. “So I’m thankful for God. Today’s Thanksgiving. I’m giving up big time for God that I’m alive.”

The two were among a group of five visitors from Kiryas Joel and Brooklyn who were at Haulover Beach on 140th and Collins Avenue.  There were no lifeguards present in the area where the men were swimming, with signs posted warning beachgoers to swim only in guarded areas and warning of the dangers of rip currents, according to Erika Benitez, public information officer for Miami Dade Fire and Rescue.

“There is a lifeguard tower there but there was no lifeguard on duty,” Benitez told VIN News.  “We can only man so many towers and the no swimming signs were posted.”

Benitez said that a call came in at approximately 11:15 AM, advising of as many as four people possibly in the water.  By the time lifeguards reached the area, Aron Wurzberger and Yitzchok Englander, both of Kiryas Joel, had already managed to get out of the water.  A fifth member of the group also emerged from the water unharmed.

To read the entire article click here.

To see a video on the events that transpired on that beach and the funeral that followed see below.

News channel 12 video of funeral: https://youtu.be/vV3BQv6mX2g

2 thoughts on “Satmar Hasidim Drown??… Commenters’ Posts

  1. If this was not murder – it has to be a confluence of some of the most amazing coincidences ever.

    When there is this much smoke – usually something is burning….

    How often do people drown at this beach? Why right now in the middle of the FBI raids? Why these two notorious characters – one with a very extensive criminal history? Why this beach in this neighborhood – it does not appear that populated with frum people but it does appear remote – a good place for faking drownings.

    Look at the history of police acting as hit men for organized crime. NYC has a long history of this.

    It all stinks.

    Liked by 2 people

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